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anothersiteOffline
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: Norton-Holmes Relived in DB 6.0  PostPosted: Sep 11, 2006 - 01:18 AM



Joined: May 07, 2006
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I really like the phrase - "logical" champions. Especially since the more I learn about Dempsey the more puzzling his "reign" and historical greatness seems.
 
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Post subject: Norton's claim to title  PostPosted: Sep 11, 2006 - 09:05 AM



Joined: May 21, 2006
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I think that subsequent circumstances helped cement Norton's claim.

I remember that the WBC title was the lesser-regarded of the two titles at this time. However, Larry Holmes repeatedly defended the WBC title and became the popular champion. The WBA title changed hands every couple of months, becoming a joke. When Holmes defeated the un-retired Ali, there was no disputing his status, and Norton thus became a necessary link in the chain.

It's rather odd that the Holmes-Ali mismatch is used to justify Holmes' "linear champion" status. the fight was universally deprecated in the media at the time.
 
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anothersiteOffline
Post subject: Re: Norton's claim to title  PostPosted: Sep 11, 2006 - 08:34 PM



Joined: May 07, 2006
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Regarding Holmes-ALi mismatch: revisionist history at its best - worst? I just remember it as a sad day. I never understood why some folks think/celebrate/etc. that a great champion has to be "carried out on his shield."

BTW, I agree that Holmes' long and solid reign made the WBC title more regarded. This reign made his narrow defeat of Norton look better for Norton as the years passed.
 
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Post subject: Ken Norton Data Boxing Career Replay  PostPosted: Sep 14, 2006 - 09:45 PM



Joined: Mar 19, 2006
Posts: 974

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NORTON VS. STEPHENS

VENUE: On November 10, 1978 at Caesars Palace in Las Vegas, Ken Norton beat Randy Stephens by KO in round 3. This bout was on ABC TV with Howard Cosell as the announcer (Norton discussed in his book, "Going the Distance", that Cosell was predicting an upset by Stephens). Stephens most recent bout was a loss to Gerrie Coetzee in a disputed decision, and Coetzee was a good fighter.

COMMENT: I read in Norton's book ("Going the Distance") that Norton hit Stephens with a good shot in the third round that staggered Stephens. Norton could see that Stephens was hurt and out on his feet, so rather than continue hitting him Norton stopped punching . The bout was stopped when Stephens fell to the canvas and Norton won by KO at 2:42 of the third. After the fight, Stephens manager thanked Norton for not hurting Stephens when he was wobbling.

BoxRec fight page for the 1978 Norton-Stephens bout: http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php?title=Fight:25993

Please note that the following fight narrative is a text file extract. See:
http://mydataboxingjournal.blogspot.com/2008/05/data-boxing-60-fight-narratives.html

Let's go to the fight...


[The announcer:]
Ladies and gentlemen ...
Fighting out of the 'red' corner,
weighing in at 190 pounds,
Randy Stephens
... and his opponent, fighting out of the 'blue' corner,
weighing in at 220 pounds,
Ken Norton
in ten rounds of boxing.

[The broadcaster:]

~~~ FIRST ROUND ~~~
Here Norton comes up short with a left to the head.
Norton takes a left hand to the head!
Stephens missing with a left to the body.
Norton with a left to the head.
Stephens, a left to the body for nothing.
Norton with a left to the head.
Stephens with a right to the body.
Norton crouching.
Norton jabs.
Norton with a right to the head.
Round one, there's the bell.
A close round.
Our analyst scored that round 10-10.

~~~ SECOND ROUND ~~~
Stephens in the northwest corner to our far left;
Norton out of the southeast corner to our near right.
Norton waiting to counter.
Norton with a left to the head.
Stephens with a left to the head.
Ken Norton missing with a left to the head.
Stephens lands a left to Norton's jaw!
Stephens with a right to the body.
Norton no luck with a left to the head.
The bell.
A close round.
Our analyst scored that round for Stephens by 10-9.
For the fight, he has it 20-19 for Stephens.

~~~ THIRD ROUND ~~~
Norton missing with a left to the head.
Stephens no luck with a right to the head.
Norton lands a left glove to the head!
Norton with a left to the head.
Stephens missing with a left to the body.
Norton with a right to the head.
Stephens no luck with a left to the head.
Norton no luck with a left to the head.
Stephens with a left to the head.
Norton missing with a left to the head.
Stephens with a left to the head.
Norton pounds a barrage of lefts and rights to the head!!!!
Again Norton connects with a left and a right to the head!!
Norton with a left to the head.
Here Stephens comes up short with a left to the head.
Heavy right to the head by Norton...
... a standing eight-count for Stephens.
Norton hurt him with a left glove!
The referee stops the fight!
... Stephens took too many hits this round.
A technical knock out of Randy Stephens by Ken Norton
... at two minutes and twenty three seconds of round three.
Let's go to the ring announcer.
---
[The announcer:]

Ladies and gentlemen: your attention please.
The winner in round three by technical knock-out,
Ken Norton !


NEXT UP: Ken Norton vs. Earnie Shavers


Last edited by Big_City on Aug 20, 2011 - 06:27 PM; edited 8 times in total
 
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Big_CityOffline
Post subject: Data Boxing: Norton-Shavers  PostPosted: Sep 15, 2006 - 07:28 PM



Joined: Mar 19, 2006
Posts: 974

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NORTON-SHAVERS

VENUE: On March 23, 1979 at the Hilton in Las Vegas, former world champion Ken Norton lost to Earnie Shavers by KO in round 1 of a scheduled 12 round bout. Shavers was 33 years old and Norton was 35. Shavers entered the ring at 210 and Norton at 225. This bout was televised by ABC with Howard Cosell as announcer.

COMMENT: Although Kenny Norton was a former world champion and one of the few to beat Muhammed Ali, he was a declining, older boxer at this stage of his career and even some of the best get caught cold. "The Acorn" Earnie Shavers was on the rise at this stage of his career. Shavers was one of the all time biggest punchers in heavyweight history. In Ring Magazine's 100 Greatest Punchers Earnie Shavers is ranked # 10. Coincidentally, Norton and Shavers had a number of common opponents. Shavers was stopped by Ron Stander (KO 5) and Jerry Quarry (TKO 1). Norton stopped Stander and Quarry (both by TKO in the 5th). In addition, Shavers lost to Muhammed Ali (once) and Larry Holmes (twice), while Norton beat Ali in their first bout and lost the next two (Norton arguably won all three bouts with Ali). As champion Norton lost a controversial split-decision to Holmes in their WBC title match by one point. Both Norton and Shavers beat Jimmy Young although Shavers fought to a draw against Young in their second bout.

DATA BOXING REPLAY: Here is my result for Norton past-his-prime vs. Shavers. The following is the narration extracted from the DB 6.0 Detail file. Let's take a look at a few parts of the bout narrative...

[The announcer:]
Ladies and gentlemen ...
Heavyweight boxing.
Fighting out of the 'red' corner,
weighing in at 210 pounds,
Earnie Shavers
... and his opponent, fighting out of the 'blue' corner,
weighing in at 223 pounds,
Ken Norton
in ten rounds of boxing.

[The broadcaster:]

~~~ FIRST ROUND ~~~
Shavers connects with a left and a right to the head and body!!
There's Shavers, a left to the head for nothing.
Norton with a left to the head.
Strong right by Shavers ...
... Norton is down!
Norton is knocked on his back.
He's up at eight.

NOTE: THE KNOCKDOWN COUNTS ARE NOT COMPLETED INSTANTLY AS THEY APPEAR ON THIS ON-LINE SCREEN. ON THE DATA BOXING ACTION SCREEN, THE KNOCKDOWNS ARE COUNTED DOWN ON THE SCREEN. LET'S PICK UP THE ACTION LATER IN THE ROUND...


Norton circling.
Now Ken Norton, a left to the head in vain.
Mighty left by Shavers ...
Down goes Norton!
Norton is ruled knocked down, one glove touched the canvas.
... gets up quickly.
For the second time in the fight, Norton goes down.
... Norton takes the mandatory eight-count
Shavers hurt him with a left glove!
Norton is forced toward the center of the ring.
There's the bell, ending round one!
Great round for Shavers.
Our analyst scored that round for Shavers by 10-7.

LET'S GO TO ROUNDS 2-3....

~~~ SECOND ROUND ~~~
Shavers in the northwest corner to our far left;
Norton out of the southeast corner to our near right.
Norton takes a left glove to the head!
Earnie Shavers with a left to the head.
Norton with a right to the body.
Earnie Shavers with a left to the head.
Ken Norton missing with a right to the head.
Shavers with a right to the head.
End of round two.
A close round.
Our analyst scored that round for Shavers by 10-9.
For the fight, he has it 20-16 for Shavers.

~~~ THIRD ROUND ~~~
Shavers moving in.
Action at the center of the ring.
Shavers waiting to counter.
Shavers with a right to the body.
Norton no luck with a left to the head.
Earnie Shavers with a right to the head.
Norton waits to counter.
Now Norton, a left to the head in vain.
At the middle of the ring.
Shavers with a right to the body.
Norton jabs.
Norton with a left to the head.
Earnie Shavers with a left to the head.
Norton lands a left to Shavers's head!
Norton waits to counter.
Shavers is driven to the center of the ring.
Norton with a right to the head.
Earnie Shavers with a left to the head.
Norton connects with a left hand and a right to the head and body!!
Norton, a left to the body to no avail.
Shavers circling.
Shavers lands a left hand to Norton's head!
Shavers again hits a left and a right hand to the head and body!!
Shavers with a left to the head.
Norton misses with a hard left to the body.
Ken Norton, a left to the head to no avail.
There's the bell, ending round three!
A close round.
Our analyst scored that round for Norton by 10-9.
For the fight, he has it 29-26 for Shavers.
Earnie Shavers -- Ken Norton
1 10-7 3 9-10
2 10-9

Rounds: 2 - 1 Points: 29 - 26

HERE'S THE LAST 2 ROUNDS OF THE COMPUTER GENERATED FIGHT....

~~~ SIXTH ROUND ~~~
Shavers, a right to the head in vain.
Norton connects with a left and a right to the head and body!!
Norton, a right to the head for nothing.
Shavers, a left to the head for nothing.
Norton waits to counter.
Norton lands a left glove to the head!
Norton jabs.
Round six is over!
Round, perhaps, to Norton.
Our analyst scored that round for Norton by 10-9.
For the fight, he has it 58-54 for Shavers.
Earnie Shavers -- Ken Norton
1 10-7 4 10-9
2 10-9 5 10-9
3 9-10 6 9-10

Rounds: 4 - 2 Points: 58 - 54

~~~ SEVENTH ROUND ~~~
Norton has been knocked down twice over the first six rounds.
Shavers connects with a left hand and a right to the head and body!!
Shavers waits to counter.
Shavers with a left to the head.
Norton with a right to the head.
Shavers lands a left glove to the head!
Shavers with a right to the head.
Here Norton is short with a right to the head.
At the center of the ring.
Shavers waiting to counter.
Shavers lands a left glove to the head!
Strong left by Shavers ...
... Norton is down!
Norton crumbled in the corner.
He's up at eight.
For the third time in the fight, Norton goes down.
Shavers hurt him with a left glove!
The referee stops the fight!
... that knockdown has finished Norton.
A technical knock out of Ken Norton by Earnie Shavers
... at one minute and twenty four seconds of round seven.
Let's go to the ring announcer.
---
[The announcer:]

Ladies and gentlemen: your attention please.
The winner in round seven by technical knock-out,
Earnie Shavers !


COMING UP NEXT: NORTON VS. LEDOUX

ENDNOTES: This project will also include "what-if" Ken Norton bouts with Norton in his prime against Shavers, LeDoux and Cooney in their primes and also a "what-if" bout against Leon Spinks.

The narratives that I have posted on this forum are text file extracts. The read-out on the Data Boxing 6.0 action screen is color-coded for the fighters and there is a graphic and scoreboard representation for scoring. You will also see the knockdown counts on the action screen. There is much more to Data Boxing that an individual will discover as they play the game.


Last edited by Big_City on Aug 20, 2011 - 06:24 PM; edited 7 times in total
 
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Big_CityOffline
Post subject: Norton Past-His-Prime vs. LeDoux  PostPosted: Sep 15, 2006 - 08:53 PM



Joined: Mar 19, 2006
Posts: 974

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NORTON PAST-HIS-PRIME VS. LEDOUX

VENUE: This fight was held on August 19, 1979 at the Metropolitan Sports Center in Bloomington, MN. Ken Norton drew with Scott LeDoux in 10 rounds.

SCOUTING REPORT: LeDoux fought to a draw with Leon Spinks in 1977, who in 1978 became heavyweight champion with his victory over Muhammed Ali. Duane Bobick beat LeDoux twice (by decision in 10 and TKO in 8) and Norton beat Bobick by TKO in one. Other common opponents inluded Larry Holmes (TKO 7 over LeDoux; SD 15 over Norton), Larry Middleton (LeDoux won on points; Norton won by TKO in 10), and Ron Stander (LeDoux won by decision; Norton won by TKO in 5). Ken Norton retired shortly after the LeDoux bout, and then came out of retirement in 1980 because he didn't like the way his career ended.

COMMENT: I remember watching this fight live on TV and it was a great fight. Scott LeDoux was a tough customer, and although Ken Norton was at an advanced age, my observation was that talent-wise Norton was head and shoulders above Scott LeDoux. I thought Norton dominated until he got a thumb in the eye during the eighth round when LeDoux threw a jab-at that point the tide of the fight turned as Norton's vision was limited. (As an armchair viewer of this bout, I didn't think LeDoux won a round until Norton was injured in the eighth by a thumb in the eye. However, LeDoux didn't quit and was persistant. Scott showed alot of heart and he kept hanging in there and fought hard to the finish.)

BOXREC FIGHT PAGE: http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Ken_Norton_vs._Scott_LeDoux

DATA BOXING 6.0 Norton past-his-prime vs. LeDoux: Please note that for this simulation I did not activate reduced efficiency for Norton's eye injury to re-create actual results. This simulation is to find out who would have probably won if Norton had not taken a thumb in the eye. Here is my result (extracted from the Post-Fight Analysis DBLINE file):

Ken Norton Wu10 Scott Ledoux P28+/15+ J98/91' R8/2 N0/0 C&I2/0

The following is the narration of the bout from the Data Boxing 6.0 Detail file. Please note that the following narrative is a text file extract and was modified inorder to post to this on-line screen. The narration on the actual DB 6.0 screen display is color-coded for the fighters and you have the option of displaying photos of the boxers and a graph or a scoreboard display for scoring (see: http://mydataboxingjournal.blogspot.com/2008/05/data-boxing-60-fight-narratives.html). The opinion by the color analyst option was not activated for this bout....


[The announcer:]
Ladies and gentlemen ...
Heavyweight boxing.
Fighting out of the 'red' corner,
weighing in at 225 pounds,
Scott Ledoux
... and his opponent, fighting out of the 'blue' corner,
weighing in at 223 pounds,
Ken Norton
in ten rounds of boxing.

[The broadcaster:]

FIRST ROUND
Norton missing with a left to the body.
Ledoux cranking up ...!
Norton takes a left hand to the head!
Ledoux winding up ...!!
Ledoux no luck with a left to the head.
Norton jabs.
Norton connects with a left hand and a right to the head and body!!
Norton with a left to the body.
Scott Ledoux with a left to the head.
Norton, a left to the head to no avail.
Ledoux with a left to the head.
Norton moving in.
There's the bell, ending round one!

SECOND ROUND
Norton with a right to the head.
Ledoux, a right to the head for nothing.
Here Norton comes up short with a right to the body.
Now Ledoux, a left to the body to no avail.
Norton waits to counter.
Norton with a left to the body.
The bell, ending round two!

THIRD ROUND
Norton lands a left hand to the head!
Norton, a right to the body for nothing.
Scott Ledoux with a left to the body.
Norton, a right to the body in vain.
Here Ledoux comes up short with a left to the head.
Norton with a left to the head.
Ledoux, a right to the head in vain.
Norton with a left to the body.
Ledoux with a right to the head.
Norton with a right to the body.
Ledoux with a left to the body.
Norton jabs.
Here Norton is short with a left to the body.
Ledoux with a left to the body.
Norton with a right to the body.
Ledoux with a left to the body.
Norton with a right to the head.
Ledoux, a left to the head to no avail.
Norton with a left to the body.
Here Ledoux is short with a left to the head.
Norton lands a left glove to Ledoux's head!
End of round three.

FOURTH ROUND
Norton with a right to the head.
Ledoux with a left to the body.
Norton lands a left to Ledoux's nose!
Norton again lands a left hand to Ledoux's head!
Yet again Norton lands a left to Ledoux's cheek!
Norton with a right to the body.
Scott Ledoux with a left to the head.
Norton with a punishing right.
An injury to Ledoux.
Ledoux has a nose bleed.
Norton scores with a left-right-left to the head and body!!!
Norton, a left to the head for nothing.
Round four, there's the bell.

FIFTH ROUND
Norton jabs.
Norton with a left to the head.
Ledoux no luck with a left to the body.
Norton no luck with a left to the body.
Ledoux lands a left to the head!
Ledoux again lands a left glove to Norton's head!
Ledoux circling.
Time called for round five.

SIXTH ROUND
Norton with a right to the head.
Ledoux crouching.
Ledoux with a right to the head.
Ken connects with a left hand and a right to the head and body!!
Norton with a left to the head.
Now Ledoux lands a left to the mouth!
Ledoux missing with a left to the body.
Norton lands a left to Ledoux's head!
Norton with a left to the body.
There's the bell, ending round six!

SEVENTH ROUND
Norton slipping the punch.
Norton makes contact with a left hand to the chin!
Norton with a left to the head.
Ledoux with a left to the head.
Norton waiting.
Norton lands a left hand to Ledoux's cheek!
Norton again lands a left glove to Ledoux's head!
Here Norton comes up short with a left to the head.
Ledoux lands a left to the head!
Ledoux, a right to the head for nothing.
Norton with a left to the body.
Ledoux connects with a left hand and a right to the head and body!!
Here Ledoux is short with a left to the head.
Norton, a left to the head for nothing.
Ledoux lands a left to Norton's head!
Here Ledoux is short with a left to the head.
Norton, a left to the body for nothing.
Ledoux with a right to the head.
Norton, a left to the head to no avail.
Ledoux misses with a hard left to the body.
Ledoux with a right to the head.
Norton lands a left glove to the head!
Norton again lands a left hand to Ledoux's head!
Norton circling.
Ken Norton with a left to the body.
Ledoux lands a left to the head!
Ledoux moving back.
Ledoux with a left to the head.
Norton with a left to the head.
There's the bell, ending round seven!

EIGHTH ROUND
Norton with a left to the head.
Norton takes a left hand to the head!
Ledoux with a right to the head.
Norton, a right to the head for nothing.
Ledoux makes contact with a left hand to Norton's head!
Ledoux with a left to the head.
Norton with a left to the body.
Ledoux connects with a left and a right hand to the head and body!!
Ledoux with a left to the body.
Round eight, there's the bell.

NINTH ROUND
Norton no luck with a left to the body.
Ledoux with a right to the body.
Norton with a left to the body.
Ledoux waits to counter.
Scott Ledoux, a left to the head in vain.
Norton lands a left glove to Ledoux's jaw!
Norton with a right to the head.
There's Ledoux, a right to the head for nothing.
Norton, a left to the head to no avail.
Ledoux with a left to the head.
Norton slipping the punch.
Norton connects with a left hand and a right to the head and body!!
Norton with a left to the head.
End of round nine.

TENTH AND FINAL ROUND
Norton with a left to the head.
Ledoux at the ready ...!!
Here Scott Ledoux comes up short with a left to the body.
Norton with a punishing right.
An injury to Ledoux.
Ledoux has a mouth cut.
Norton scores with a left-right-left to the head and body!!!
Norton with a left to the head.
Ledoux no luck with a left to the head.
Ken Norton, a right to the head for nothing.
There's the bell, ending the fight!
Let's go to the ring announcer.
---
[The announcer:]

Ladies and gentlemen, I have the decision of the scorers.
We have a unanimous decision.
The senior judge scores it 98 points to 91.
The associate judge scores it 98 points to 92.
The referee scores it 98 points to 91.
... for the winner,
Ken Norton!
---
It's Norton.


ENDNOTE: I believe that Norton would have beat LeDoux if he had not taken a thumb in the eye.

KEN NORTON - BOXREC... http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php/Ken_Norton


Last edited by Big_City on Aug 20, 2011 - 06:50 PM; edited 12 times in total
 
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Post subject: Norton-Cobb  PostPosted: Sep 22, 2006 - 09:42 PM



Joined: Mar 19, 2006
Posts: 974

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KEN NORTON CAREER REPLAY: TEX COBB BOUT

VENUE:
On November 7, 1980, former world champion Ken Norton started a comeback impressively by defeating previously unbeaten Randy "Tex" Cobb by a split decision over 10 rounds in San Antonio, Texas. Prior to his fight with Norton, Cobb beat Earnie Shavers by TKO in eight on August 2, 1980.

DATA BOXING 6.0 RESULT: This was a very close fight that mirrored the actual bout. Ken Norton past-his-prime beat Tex Cobb by split-decision over 10 rounds.

Here is my result. This is the fight narration extracted from the DB 6.0 Detail file:

[The announcer:]
Ladies and gentlemen ...
Heavyweight boxing.
Fighting out of the 'red' corner,
Tex Cobb
... and his opponent, fighting out of the 'blue' corner,
Ken Norton
in ten rounds of boxing.

[The broadcaster:]

~~~ FIRST ROUND ~~~
Cobb with a left to the head.
At the center of the ring.
Norton no luck with a left to the head.
Cobb cranking up ...!
Cobb lands a left hand to Norton's ear!
Cobb at the ready ...!!
Cobb, a left to the head in vain.
Norton countering.
Cobb takes a left to the head!
Norton again connects with a left and a right to the head and body!!
Norton waits to counter.
Yet again Norton lands a left to Cobb's chin!
Round one is over!
Round, perhaps, to Norton.
Our analyst scored that round for Norton by 10-9.
~~~ SECOND ROUND ~~~
Cobb in the northwest corner to our far left;
Norton out of the southeast corner to our near right.
Cobb missing with a left to the head.
Norton with a left to the head.
Cobb connects with a left and a right hand to the head and body!!
Cobb with a right to the head.
Norton connects with a left and a right to the head and body!!
Norton feinting.
Again Norton lands a left to the head!
Round two is over!
Edge, perhaps, to Norton.
Our analyst scored that round for Norton by 10-9.
For the fight, he has it 20-18 for Norton.
~~~ THIRD ROUND ~~~
Cobb with a left to the body.
Norton connects with a left and a right hand to the head and body!!
Norton with a right to the body.
Cobb with a left to the head.
Ken Norton with a right to the body.
Tex Cobb with a right to the head.
Ken Norton with a right to the head.
Cobb waits to counter.
Cobb with a right to the head.
Norton with a left to the head.
Cobb with a right to the head.
Norton with a right to the head.
Cobb with a right to the head.
Norton with a left to the body.
Cobb, a left to the body for nothing.
Norton with a left to the head.
Cobb connects with a left and a right to the head and body!!
Cobb, a left to the body in vain.
Norton jabs.
Norton missing with a left to the head.
Cobb connects with a left and a right hand to the head and body!!
Cobb again connects with a left and a right hand to the head and body!!
End of round three.
Round, perhaps, to Cobb.
Our analyst scored that round for Cobb by 10-9.
For the fight, he has it 29-28 for Norton.
Tex Cobb -- Ken Norton
1 9-10 3 10-9
2 9-10

Rounds: 1 - 2 Points: 28 - 29
~~~ FOURTH ROUND ~~~
Cobb connects with a left and a right hand to the head and body!!
Cobb with a right to the body.
Norton lands a left to the head!
Norton with a right to the body.
Cobb with a left to the head.
Norton weaving.
Norton waits to counter.
Norton no luck with a left to the head.
Cobb makes contact with a left glove to Norton's head!
Again Cobb lands a left to Norton's head!
Cobb with a left to the head.
Cobb takes a left glove to the head!
Norton missing with a right to the head.
Action at the center of the ring.
End of round four.
A close round.
Our analyst scored that round for Cobb by 10-9.
He has it 38-38 overall.
Tex Cobb -- Ken Norton
1 9-10 3 10-9
2 9-10 4 10-9

Rounds: 2 - 2 Points: 38 - 38
~~~ FIFTH ROUND ~~~
Norton to our near right; and
Cobb in the corner to our far left.
Cobb waits to counter.
Here Cobb comes up short with a left to the head.
Norton lands a left glove to Cobb's head!
Norton missing with a left to the head.
Cobb hits a left and a right to the head and body!!
Here Cobb is short with a right to the head.
There's the bell, ending round five!
Edge, perhaps, to Cobb.
Our analyst scored that round for Cobb by 10-9.
For the fight, he has it 48-47 for Cobb.
Tex Cobb -- Ken Norton
1 9-10 4 10-9
2 9-10 5 10-9
3 10-9

Rounds: 3 - 2 Points: 48 - 47
~~~ SIXTH ROUND ~~~
Cobb with a right to the body.
Norton waits to counter.
Norton with a left to the body.
Cobb with a right to the body.
Norton with a left to the head.
Cobb with a left to the head.
Ken Norton with a left to the body.
At the center of the ring.
Cobb with a right to the head.
Norton with a left to the body.
Round six is over!
A close round.
Our analyst scored that round for Norton by 10-9.
He has it 57-57 overall.
Tex Cobb -- Ken Norton
1 9-10 4 10-9
2 9-10 5 10-9
3 10-9 6 9-10

Rounds: 3 - 3 Points: 57 - 57
~~~ SEVENTH ROUND ~~~
Cobb with a left to the head.
Ken Norton with a left to the head.
Cobb with a left to the head.
Norton with a left to the head.
Here Cobb comes up short with a right to the head.
Norton jabs.
Ken Norton with a left to the body.
Cobb no luck with a left to the body.
Norton missing with a left to the body.
Cobb, a left to the head for nothing.
Here Ken Norton is short with a left to the head.
Cobb connects with a left and a right hand to the head and body!!
Cobb with a right to the head.
At the center of the ring.
Norton with a right to the head.
Cobb with a left to the body.
Now Ken lands a left hand to Cobb's head!
Again Norton connects with a left and a right hand to the head and body!!
Norton, a left to the head for nothing.
Cobb with a right to the head.
Ken Norton with a left to the head.
Cobb lands a left to Norton's head!
Cobb, a right to the head in vain.
Norton missing with a left to the head.
Cobb missing with a right to the head.
Norton, a left to the body in vain.
Cobb with a left to the head.
Norton with a right to the body.
Cobb lands a left hand to Norton's head!
Here Cobb is short with a left to the head.
Norton lands a left to Cobb's head!
Norton no luck with a right to the body.
At the center of the ring.
There's the bell, ending round seven!
A close round.
Our analyst scored that round for Norton by 10-9.
For the fight, he has it 67-66 for Norton.
Tex Cobb -- Ken Norton
1 9-10 5 10-9
2 9-10 6 9-10
3 10-9 7 9-10
4 10-9

Rounds: 3 - 4 Points: 66 - 67
~~~ EIGHTH ROUND ~~~
Cobb in the northwest corner to our far left;
Norton out of the southeast corner to our near right.
Cobb waiting to counter.
Cobb no luck with a right to the head.
Norton lands a left hand to Cobb's head!
Norton with a right to the head.
Cobb, a right to the body to no avail.
Norton makes contact with a left glove to Cobb's head!
Norton with a left to the head.
Cobb with a right to the body.
Norton, a right to the head for nothing.
Tex lands a left hand to the head!
Cobb backing off.
Round eight, there's the bell.
A close round.
Our analyst scored that round 10-10.
For the fight, he has it 77-76 for Norton.
Tex Cobb -- Ken Norton
1 9-10 5 10-9
2 9-10 6 9-10
3 10-9 7 9-10
4 10-9 8 10-10

Rounds: 3 - 4 - 1 Points: 76 - 77
~~~ NINTH ROUND ~~~
Cobb with a left to the body.
At the middle of the ring.
Norton with a right to the head.
Cobb with a left to the body.
Cobb takes a left glove to the head!
Norton again lands a left glove to Cobb's head!
Norton yet again lands a left hand to the head!
Norton with a left to the head.
Cobb missing with a left to the body.
Ken Norton with a left to the head.
Cobb with a left to the head.
Norton, a left to the body for nothing.
Cobb, a left to the body to no avail.
Norton, a left to the body to no avail.
The bell.
Round, perhaps, to Norton.
Our analyst scored that round for Norton by 10-9.
For the fight, he has it 87-85 for Norton.
Tex Cobb -- Ken Norton
1 9-10 6 9-10
2 9-10 7 9-10
3 10-9 8 10-10
4 10-9 9 9-10
5 10-9

Rounds: 3 - 5 - 1 Points: 85 - 87
~~~ TENTH AND FINAL ROUND ~~~
Cobb winding up ...!!
Cobb connects with a left and a right hand to the head and body!!
Cobb again connects with a left and a right hand to the head and body!!
Here Cobb is short with a left to the head.
Norton no luck with a right to the head.
We have Tex Cobb missing with a left to the head.
There's the bell, ending the fight!
Round, perhaps, to Cobb.
Our analyst scored that round for Cobb by 10-9.
For the fight, he has it 96-95 for Norton.
Tex Cobb -- Ken Norton
1 9-10 6 9-10
2 9-10 7 9-10
3 10-9 8 10-10
4 10-9 9 9-10
5 10-9 10 10-9

Rounds: 4 - 5 - 1 Points: 95 - 96
In a fight that went back and forth ....
Looked as if Cobb may have pulled it out late.
Let's go to the ring announcer.
---
[The announcer:]

Ladies and gentlemen, I have the decision of the scorers.
We have a split decision.
The referee scores it 97 points to 93 ... Cobb.
The associate judge scores it 96 points to 95 ... Norton.
The senior judge scores it 96 points to 95
... for the winner,
Ken Norton!
---
It's Norton after all!!


NEXT UP: NORTON-COONEY


Last edited by Big_City on Aug 20, 2011 - 06:29 PM; edited 8 times in total
 
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Big_CityOffline
Post subject: Norton-Cooney DB 6.0 Replay  PostPosted: Sep 29, 2006 - 09:54 PM



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KEN NORTON vs. GERRY COONEY

VENUE: On May 11, 1981 Ken Norton lost to Gerry Cooney by TKO in round 1 at Madison Square Garden in NY. Although Norton was one of the few to beat Ali, that version of Ken Norton was long gone at the time of the Cooney bout. In "The Ring Magazine's Annual Ratings" prior to this bout (1980), Norton was ranked # 10 and Cooney was ranked # 2.

Comments: Norton was well past his prime and no longer had the motivation to train. Cooney was on the rise in his career and had a lot of power. Moreover, Norton had only one fight prior to this bout since coming out of retirement in 1980.

DATA BOXING 6.0 REPLAY: Norton was represented with his past prime ratings. Here is the actual computer fight narration extracted from DB 6.0:

[The announcer:]
Ladies and gentlemen ...
Heavyweight boxing.
Fighting out of the 'red' corner,
weighing in at 225 pounds,
Gerry Cooney
... and his opponent, fighting out of the 'blue' corner,
weighing in at 223 pounds,
Ken Norton
in ten rounds of boxing.

[The broadcaster:]

FIRST ROUND
Cooney, a left to the head to no avail.
Norton feinting.
Ken Norton with a left to the head.
Cooney, a left to the head to no avail.
Norton missing with a left to the head.
Cooney with a left to the head.
Norton with a left to the head.
Gerry Cooney, a left to the head to no avail.
Norton connects with a pair of left hands to the head!!
Now Norton, a left to the head to no avail.
Round one, there's the bell.
Round, perhaps, to Norton.
Our analyst scored that round for Norton by 10-9.

SECOND ROUND
Heavy right to the body by Cooney...
... a standing eight-count for Norton.
Cooney hurt him with a left hand!
Heavy left to the body by Cooney...
... a standing eight-count for Norton.
Crashing left by Cooney ...
... Norton is down!
Norton is knocked down, both gloves touched the canvas.
... gets up quickly.
... Norton takes the mandatory eight-count
Cooney hurt him with a left hand!
The referee stops the fight!
... Norton took too many hits this round.
Gerry Cooney TKO's Ken Norton
... at one minute and eight seconds of round two.
Let's go to the ring announcer.
---
[The announcer:]

Ladies and gentlemen: your attention please.
The winner in round two by technical knock-out,
Gerry Cooney !

100 Bout Fast Mode Series: Cooney-Norton 90-8Ws-2Ds: 25-3Ks, 33-0T's

ENDNOTES: The Data Boxing replay mirrored the real-life 1981 fight. Considering that Norton past-his-prime lost to Cooney by TKO in round one, it should be noted that Cooney was one of the hardest hitters in history-the #1 ranked contender going into this fight, and even some of the best have been caught cold. In a Norton-Cooney match-up with both in their primes, my analysis is that this would be a close match-up that either boxer could win. Muhammed Ali is generally considered the greatest and Norton is one of the few to beat Ali. Moreover, Larry Holmes is oftentimes considered in the top five and was the second longest reigning champion in history behind Joe Louis. Norton late in his prime arguably beat Holmes when he was early in his peak. Norton is one of the best heavyweight boxers of all time

I am a long-time fan of Ken Norton (he was one of my sports idols growing up). He was a great fighter (one of the few to beat Muhammad Ali) and he is a very classy guy. With Data Boxing I have been able to re-live Norton's career. In this Ken Norton career replay I have had remarkable results using Data Boxing 6.0 that have paralled the actual fights with uncanny accuracy. It's been fun to relive the 1970's heavyweight division with 'DB'. Data Boxing is an excellent boxing simulation that produces realistic results and it has brought me many hours of pleasure as a long-time player of the original board and dice game and now the computer version. As I continue to play the computer version, I discover new things about the game that enhance the game experience for me. Data Boxing 6.0, like the board game, can be as simple or as complex as I want it to be-it's a mentally stimulating game experience with lots of options to choose from that enable the player to be an active participant and learner. Thanks again to Dr. Compton, Don Mankowski and Jeff Downey for this great game. In my mind, DATA BOXING is the greatest sports simulation ever.

Note: Unless otherwise indicated, backstory information for this Data Boxing 6.0 Ken Norton career replay was taken from BoxRec.com Ken Norton's book entitled Going the Distance: The Ken Norton Story.

UP NEXT: "WHAT IF" Ken Norton bouts will be conducted with Norton facing Cooney, LeDoux and Shavers. In the above Norton will be represented with his "prime" ratings rather than his "past-prime" ratings as in this career replay. A Ken Norton-Leon Spinks simulation will also be conducted.


Last edited by Big_City on Aug 20, 2011 - 06:31 PM; edited 11 times in total
 
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anothersiteOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 04, 2006 - 09:36 PM



Joined: May 07, 2006
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I wholeheartedly agree that "DATA BOXING is the greatest sports simulation ever." The part that really amazes me is how simple the game mechanics are and how swift the dice version plays, yet the game provides incredible detail that reasonably explains why one fighter would or would not beat another.

I look forward to the rest of your replay series.
 
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Big_CityOffline
Post subject: Data Boxing  PostPosted: Oct 04, 2006 - 10:51 PM



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anothersite,

Thanks for your interest. As a "Data Boxing Fanatic" it's good to hear from other players of Data Boxing. In all fairness to Norton, I always thought the results would have been different if he had faced Cooney, Shavers, and LeDoux 5 or 6 years earlier in his career when he was in his prime. Also, if L. Spinks had signed for the mandatory WBC title defense against Norton, I think Norton would have beat Spinks for the title. With Data Boxing, I'll be able to establish the probable winner(s) of the above-mentioned matchups. Stay tuned.
 
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Post subject: What-if Fight: Norton-LeDoux  PostPosted: Oct 08, 2006 - 01:28 PM



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DATA BOXING 6.0 WHAT IF FIGHT: KEN NORTON IN-HIS-PRIME VS SCOTT LEDOUX

It was all Ken Norton as he dominated a 15 bout Data Boxing series with Scott LeDoux. Norton won 13 bouts to 1 for LeDoux and there was one draw. KOs were one for Norton and zero for LeDoux. TKOs were five for Norton and zero for LeDoux. The following are the results:

Ken Norton Wu12 Scott LeDoux

Ken Norton TKO4 Scott LeDoux

Ken Norton Wu12 Scott LeDoux

Ken Norton TKO12 Scott LeDoux

Ken Norton Wu12 Scott LeDoux

Ken Norton KO8 Scott LeDoux

Ken Norton Ds12 Scott LeDoux

Ken Norton TKO11 Scott LeDoux

Ken Norton Wu12 Scott LeDoux

Ken Norton Wu12 Scott LeDoux

Ken Norton Wu12 Scott LeDoux

Scott LeDoux Ws12 Ken Norton

Ken Norton TKO7 Scott LeDoux

Ken Norton Wu12 Scott LeDoux

Ken Norton Wu12 Scott LeDoux

Comment: I believe that Norton in his prime would have knocked LeDoux about the ring. The actual fight was a walkover for a past-his-prime Norton until he took a thumb in the eye which immediately changed the bout.

COMING UP NEXT: Norton-in-his-prime vs. Cooney


Last edited by Big_City on Aug 20, 2011 - 06:36 PM; edited 2 times in total
 
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Post subject: Cooney vs. Norton in-his-prime  PostPosted: Oct 09, 2006 - 06:24 PM



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DATA BOXING 6.0 WHAT IF FIGHTS: KEN NORTON-IN-HIS-PRIME VS. GERRY COONEY

Ken Norton in-his-prime gave as well as he took in a 15 bout series with Gerry Cooney. This Norton-Cooney series (and I have had many) was very close as it was Cooney 8 wins, 4 KOs, 1 TKO and Norton 7 wins, 3 KOs, 1 TKO. The following are the results...

Ken Norton TKO8 Gerry Cooney

Ken Norton Wu12 Gerry Cooney

Ken Norton Wu12 Gerry Cooney

Gerry Cooney Wu12 Ken Norton

Ken Norton KO7 Gerry Cooney

Ken Norton KO4 Gerry Cooney

Gerry Cooney TKO7 Ken Norton

Gerry Cooney KO3 Ken Norton

Gerry Cooney Wu12 Ken Norton

Ken Norton Wu12 Gerry Cooney

Gerry Cooney Wu12 Ken Norton

Ken Norton KO1 Gerry Cooney

Gerry Cooney KO6 Ken Norton

Gerry Cooney KO7 Ken Norton

Gerry Cooney KO7 Ken Norton

Comment: Although Cooney caught a past-his-prime Norton cold in their real life fight, if Norton and Cooney had fought with both in their primes, Norton would have likely fought Cooney well and given Cooney all that he wanted. My analysis is that this would have been a fight that either boxer could win.

P.S. The post-fight analysis function in Data Boxing 6.0 is really COOL! It calculates the data from all your bouts and displays the data in multiple formats that you can choose from. My all-time results for Cooney vs. Norton in-his-prime: Cooney vs Norton 840-821; 176-167 KOs, 82-138 TKOs. (Note: Most of these bouts were conducted in the fast mode).

COMING UP NEXT: Norton in-his-prime vs. Shavers


Last edited by Big_City on Aug 20, 2011 - 06:39 PM; edited 6 times in total
 
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Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 12, 2006 - 09:07 PM



Joined: May 07, 2006
Posts: 261

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I always thought Cooney was a pretty good fighter with a great left hook and he rates out that way in DB. He came across as a guy who might have done great in the early 1900s when there were fewer career options, so he would have needed to be in the ring on a regular basis. As it was, he really did seem like a warrior once he got into the ring. For some reason, when I think of Cooney I always think of Max Baer in that both had boxing talent but they came across as reluctant warriors. I am not sure if I am being fair to either boxer.

Anyway, back to the games.
 
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Post subject: Gerry Cooney, Max Baer  PostPosted: Oct 13, 2006 - 09:54 PM



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Thats a good observation about Max Baer and Gerry Cooney . Both Cooney and Baer had excellent physical tools and could have been champions for a long time, but their efficiency was reduced in some of their fights for various reasons. Cooney was a devastating puncher with great potential of becoming HW champion, but injuries and inactivity reduced his efficiency. Bear was a hard-hitter and a fearsome fighter, but was hampered by hand injuries in his fights with Braddock and Louis, and he was out of shape in various fights which is reflected in Data Boxing.

P.S. At the present time Max Baer is subject in the boxing news as Nicolay Valuev has been compared to Primo Carnea. Baer-Valuev is an intriguing match-up and I plan to get in some "Livermore Larrupper" Max Baer - "Beast from the East" Nicolay Valuev Data Boxing bouts this weekend.
 
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Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 13, 2006 - 11:55 PM



Joined: Apr 28, 2006
Posts: 293
Location: Tallahassee
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I've been playing with new Valuev and Klitschko cards, which might surprise you, when I turn them loose.
 
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